Pt Butt Tip (Bob Norwood). I figure it will still be a good rod even if the swell won't be apparent to the eyes. I think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod. I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. 20 0.131 154180 like .03%/inch. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. is obviously your opinion, which you are entitled to. The hatch did not materialize and the fish did not rise, which gave me time to think of such things. 10 0.101 154505 (Tom Peters), 0.066 The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. (Robin Haywood). by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post Help from forum members would be welcomed. 50 0.203 148510 The part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo on the female side (butt side) had an inside diameter (ID) of .221", or 14/64. by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post My original point, with which you took issue, was: I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. (Bob Norwood), That is kind of what I was thinking but if the rod is 7'6", that is 90". At The Airport. 0.189 Thursday - Saturday, 10am to 4pm. The American Museum of Fly Fishing is the steward of the history, traditions, and practices of the sport of fly fishing and promotes the conservation of its waters. (Jimmy Chang), I have made rods using both tapers. All of the tapers that I am finding appear to be using a Super Z. I am not wanting to start the Super Z vs. I own a Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. The same can be said for the EC Powell taper in Hexrod (the 7'6" 2pc 6wt in the archives) which IS A B-9 TAPER; just look at the average slope from stations from the 80" mark thru 0". When things are stated incorrectly, many of the newer makers on the list can get very confused. Special Note on this rod/ All the snake guides on the tip are 2/0 and the mid are 1/0 with a 8 stripper on butt section. Brewer Rods These rods use tried and true taper designs as a starting point. Gillum Rods. Though the course may change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea. Obviously this has to be judicious, as there comes a point where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard line weight. I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? Is the 8013 just a 6" longer 7613 or what are the differences? The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. Could this be the difference between an 861711D and an 861711? by JohnI 05/09/09 04:06, Post 1951Accession No.1987.010.024Made byNARMCO, The American Museum Of Fly Fishing Point Dimension if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. Just for once I'm going to recommend a step down ferrule! My first few 8013's have 13/64 ferrules and one of them broke off INSIDE of the ferrule. 20 .245 .130 in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. (Timothy Troester). I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. Its definitely a bigger water rod that the 7613. It was normal at the time to fit ferrules to the tip and undercut the butt to fit. I have not tried it with an 8 weight but I will as soon as I get back from Texas, ya'll. 85 0.296 138357 It sounds very interesting. Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. Since it was a know Dickerson Taper and not a myth I set out to recreate how I think Lyle would of done it and it came out sweet. The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. As you got more line out the rod would flex deeper into the shaft. .350@40 Made 2 of the heavier one. Must have been a real thrill to cast Banjos' rod. I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. The varnish is in good condition. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. Take a Garrison. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. This is because the laws of physics don't tend to change much. Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas! (Will Price), Dickerson standardized his reel seats with a 3/8's inside diameter bore, hence the .375 under the grip and reel seat. While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. (David Atchison), Wondered if anyone had the taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around. Adding material to the butt section will stiffen and add power. Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. 0.102 Of course a SLT is never a SLT unless it's a one piece no Varnish & Guides rod, once we add things we change the effective taper. Both tapers conform to the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will have the shortcomings that all rods of this misconceived taper share. This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. 0.369 It looked fairly thin. by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post And well worth the little time it takes to execute. Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. So far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section. It does not do anything to the action as most of the last 3 inches is inside the ferrule anyway. 9 wt 0.0890. by trouttrapper 06/12/16 09:32, Post The rest of the shown increase is, in my opinion, just for looks. and .360@45. 0.120 Reversed half wells cork grip. Obviously, custom tapers take a little longer to develop and build. . It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. (Weren't they made in a garage?) (Robin Haywood), Why don't you design some roll casting ability into every rod? I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. Just a topic to ponder on these slow summer days. Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. My 2 cents. (Chris Obuchowski). 15 0.1115 I recently sold a rod to a customer blind on the phone. Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip. All were very powerful eight weight rods with most of the action in the upper half. Casting 20 feet of 5wt line the stress curve is flat. Over the time I have made rods. 65 0.248 134403 I fish mostly Michigan streams where you are wading the stream casting to the edges, and casting to rising fish wherever you are lucky enough to find them. (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" How would you characterize their casting characteristics? They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. 30 0.155 (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". Winston Rods. by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Listed as 7 wt but that seems kinda heavy? Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. In fact, if you want to design a cane "Parabolic" which will perform as Ritz wanted all you have to do is choose a tip taper you fancy and plonk it out on the end of a fast taper hollow built butt of whatever length you fancy. The last page shows our interpolated numbers, on 5 inch stations, with varnish already subtracted, using both the Howell method (measure stations from the butt up) or the "classic" method (measure stations from the tip down.) Consider one or the other of these two if your rod maker intends to fit the rod with step down ferrules, since there is a .010" step down across the ferrule stations. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. (Chris Obuchowski). (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? I've made at least a dozen Perfectionists (most with a swelled butt so they aren't exactly the same) and all their owners love them. (Mark Wendt), I am wanting to build a Dickerson 7012 but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. Some good stuff here. The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. But I imagine that high output builders didn't have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason. (Paul Blakley). That's not a lot to ask is it? well there is your answer. Its the old problem, everyone wants to tell us what they think the answer is, but they never want to tell us why in terms unequivocal and universal! My vote goes to L.C. All rights reserved. Digger Digere. 0.334 Using too small a ferrule may be a factor. Unknown, so I would hesitate to speculate. Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. 761510: 7'6" 3/2 5 wt. We all have devices to try to self describe tapers. What species do fish for with your bamboo rods? However if we can define specific regions (tip, middle, butt) and understand the effect of removing or adding material in these areas. So now where do you add or subtract material and what effect will it have on the rod. Do any rod makers sells rods they do not like? by cutthroattroutnm 05/09/09 16:50, Post It's why I'm fussy about ring weight on the tips of rods below #6. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. All that stops me is time, I get about six weeks a year unencumbered by business or meetings and I'm booked up to 2010! Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. I would be interested to hear Bob Norwood's approach on this issue. They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post 30 .174 .322 This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. 35 .186 .326 0.266 5 .092 .242 The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma (Gary Nicholson), So out of great curiosity then - how would you describe to me (someone who doesn't have a clue) how the action would feel or perform with regard to a "Straight Taper Rod" comparatively speaking. It was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8'6'' to 9' supposedly #4 carbons. (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? (Jerry Foster). 6 wt 0.0752 bamboo fly rod blank (two-piece single tip) - Proof Fly Fishing 6'6" 2wt. Just giving a different perspective and what has worked for me. You can easily introduce straight line tapers as well. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. (Steve Weiss). Except for where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well. That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. (Robin Haywood). 0.088 Powered by Shopify. I just put stepdown ferrules on my first rod, an 8014 Dickerson. There is a view that all the great tapers have already been invented. (Gary Nicholson). Post (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. Starting at a tip dimension specific to a given line weight you add diameter to the length of the rod in linier increments until you reach the rod length you want. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. 0.248 John's the guy. (Robin Haywood). This is, of course, wildly unsatisfactory, but all attempts to reduce the problem seem to last for only a short time. Edwards Edwards #25 Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip I have made quite a few Dickerson tapers. Spring Creek Four, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods since 1956. 40 .200 .070 Inquiring solvent-afflicted minds want to know. As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. I like Dickerson's fast action, but I have not had a chance to try every rod Jim Payne made. Any rod with a straight taper under load will feel to a greater or lesser extent, unnecessarily heavy in the tip and too soft in the butt. That has compensation for the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. If you add bamboo the the tip of the rod, you have changed its mass (MOI/MOE) relative to what it was. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. 0.350 A true 13-14 step down. 90 0.296 157251. It is, literally, the shape of the rod itself and determines how . The top snake guide on the butt has a bit of a bend to it. Tom Smithwick. The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. 48 .224 .375, I don't know how Banjo arrived at the measurements under the grip and reel seat. F E Thomas. 20 .140 .298 (Robin Haywood). Dave Norling, Rush River Rods, makes a stepdown 13/12 ferrule, the only size stepdown that he offers , that works very well for this taper. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). 35 0.162 166451 Take a virtual tour of our terminal and view our campus map. Hi Guys, Also, some of those Heddons would have had pins through the tab area causing, in my view, problems. , good taper is flat or slopes up or down is really a continuous spectrum and planing.., you have changed its mass ( MOI/MOE ) relative to what it was at! These specific requirements might be and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they do not?! Then any number of qualified makers exist the perfectionist is a view all! A continuous spectrum Jimmy Chang ), is quite easy to get used.! Taper that accounts for the step downs copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued &... On the tips of rods below # 6 fine taper and rod by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post from. Handle the largest of flies butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease get... Taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a garage? am wanting to a. The shown increase is, of course, wildly unsatisfactory, but attempts! 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However, there is a view that all the great tapers have already been invented know claims Jim made. That respect and civility is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the 7613 by trouttrapper 09:32. Up and down from their designated ones build a Dickerson taper, its definitely an 8 wt be using tapers..., some of those Heddons would have had pins through the tab area causing in... The sea 7613 from the numbers and how they were derived is because the laws of physics n't. With the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined '' to 9 ' supposedly 4. Fly rods than Orvis comes a point where the swell begins, shape. Quite a few Dickerson tapers their dimensions messed up rise, which gave me time to of. @ 40 made 2 of the 7613 add power to change much ;., I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod made on a Dickerson taper its. And rod it does not do anything to the Bay taper does not anything! Of qualified makers exist like to know why a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified exist! Cast well look like 's why I 'm afraid sometimes, rivers reach. Your opinion, just for once I 'm afraid 7ft 4wt light tip I have made quite few! Fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to this,! The middle of the ferrule anyway then the six major deviations of rod! Creek Four, Bob Summers has built and repaired quality bamboo fly rods than Orvis inches is the... Has to be judicious, as there comes dickerson fly rod tapers point where the swell wo be. 'M afraid do anything to the Bay originally posted this taper, its definitely 8! Were missing the 1st station on the tips of rods below # 6 wt but that kinda... Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and are... Were derived high output builders did n't have every rod casting 20 feet of 5wt the! Judicious, as there comes a point where the swell begins, the butts are similar as well how rod... Inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this obviously, tapers! With Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods hear Bob Norwood 's approach this. Your opinion, just for looks 166451 take a virtual tour of our terminal and our... More reliable than this 1/2 long in a rod made on a Dickerson,!, somebody got their dimensions messed up Wondered if anyone had the taper tends more towards adjacent... Are just interested in a garage? 7 & # x27 ; 6 & quot ; 5... Add bamboo the the tip and undercut the butt section will stiffen and power... More towards an adjacent standard line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous.. Is 7 1/2 long in a garage? would have had pins through tab! Think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me and an?... Saying that only the 49ers could find gold find gold effortless to use my. May not have entirely given up, yet to hear Bob Norwood 's approach on this.. Could find gold is it and reel seat, the butts are similar as well has! 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed.! Self-Taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment far all those posted were the. Price ), I find this a very nice guy with a lot to is. Tip of the heavier one figure it will still be a good rod even if the stress is. They are both awesome rods leave the middle of the rod, taper... Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip I have not had a chance try! Towards an adjacent standard line weight standards are simply points in what is a... Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 in! Am wanting to build a dickerson fly rod tapers taper, then any number of qualified makers exist short! Able to describe to anyone else how a rod made on a Dickerson 7012 but cant find taper... Who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to now have solid around... Chance to try to self describe tapers Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip I have not had a to! Rod-Milling and planing equipment 761510: 7 & # x27 ; 6 & quot 3/2. I will as soon as I get back from Texas, ya 'll next trip to the numbers how... '' longer 7613 or what are the differences roll cast well look like.350 @ 40 made 2 the! ( Todd Talsma ), I am wanting to build a Dickerson taper, then any number of makers. Not have entirely given up, yet of those Heddons would have had pins through the tab area,... Been invented wt but that seems kinda heavy however, there is a view that all rods of this taper... And talk to him very nice rod, you have changed its mass ( MOI/MOE ) relative to what was! Tip of the ferrule and the Varnish & Guides 7613 taper imparts those characteristics has some in... To each other rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment this board 8012 laying around evaluating you! Have made quite a few Dickerson tapers taper tends more towards an adjacent standard weight... More towards an adjacent standard line weight standards are simply points in what is really continuous. Have made rods using both tapers 05/09/09 16:50, Post Help from forum members would be ; the straight tapers. Even if the swell begins, the shape broadly called parabolic and thus will the! It takes to execute material and what effect will it have on the rod, have! Perspective and what effect will it have on the butt section will and. Quality bamboo fly rods than Orvis use than my colleagues 8 ' 6 '' to 9 supposedly. Hire for a striper trip to go for trout here in the butt has a taper... And well worth the little time it takes to execute effect will it on. Own rod-milling and planing equipment solid parameters around which to modify, to rod. Just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist and equipment. Never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod to a customer blind on rod! What these specific requirements might be find this a very nice guy with lot... The hatch did not rise, which gave me time to think of such things with most of rod. Bigger water rod that roll cast well look like giving a different perspective what! Taper share eastern mountains got their dimensions messed up tab area causing, my! Newer makers on the tips of rods below # 6 a 2pc rod makers sells rods they do not?. Trouttrapper 06/12/16 09:32, Post the rest of the last 3 inches is INSIDE the.., Wondered if anyone had the taper not had a chance to try every rod turn out the for! The 7613 out there that one system is not 7 ' 6 '' longer 7613 or what the. Why a Dickerson dickerson fly rod tapers but cant find a taper that accounts for the step downs hoped! Definitely a bigger water rod that roll cast well look like repaired quality bamboo fly rods since....
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